char: “Hmm. You're trying hard to convince me you really are dumb enough not to understand the differences here, but I'm not buying it.”

And you’re trying twice as hard to rationalize your giving Obama (as always) a pass.

char: “Obama didn't make policy based on Exodus; he gave the earthly reasons for his action many times. Bush says he consulted his heavenly father about invading Iraq and ignored the prior President (his actual father) who had relevant experience about war with Iraq. His earthly reasons were mostly invented by his own Administration. We saw how that turned out.”

So, they both invoked the divine and earthly reasons. Who invented Obama’s earthly reasons? Bush’s invocation of the divine was made in private and communicated privately. Obama’s invocation of the divine was made undeniably in public.

Obama specifically stated, ‘Scripture tells us, we shall not oppress a stranger, for we know the heart of a stranger. We were strangers once, too.’ Speaking from the White House, in the course of his official duties as POTUS, Obama appealed directly to ‘Scripture’, even quoting it, as a reason for why Americans should support his policy decision.

I don’t seem to recall Bush announcing to the American people that the reason the U.S. should invade Iraq was because God told him so. Nor did he quote Scripture. He stated the, as you call them, earthly reasons (justifications) for his decision to invade.

In fact, I reviewed the transcripts of both Bush’s announcement that the U.S. had launched military action against Iraq and Obama’s announcement that the U.S. will now postpone deportations of illegal immigrants who have been here over 5 years. My previous point bears out.

In addition, your opposition to America’s invasion of Iraq wasn’t due to the way it turned out. Your opposition was already set in stone long before effects and consequences were, or even could be, known. You'd have been just as opposed if it had turned out that everything you thought was a lie was later confirmed to be true.

As I see it, this only deepens your hypocrisy. You are terrified by a private conversation Bush had about his reliance on God and ho-hum about Obama’s public invocation of the Almighty and his word!

char: “Sure, I dislike Obama, Bush, and everyone else in government pandering to the religious.”

But your dislike is only selectively displayed and applied. That's been my point all along. Hence, my (repeatedly confirmed) observation that you don’t really have any principles that guide your criticism of the religious expressions of politicians (and high school valedictorians).

char: “But even if it is silly, divisive, and off the point, they have a right to do it, don't they?”

Uh, who said they didn’t have the right to do it?

char: “Why are you up in arms here--because a Democrat did it?”

This dislocates the discussion. It has nothing to do with Bush, Obama, or any other politician invoking God, or praying, or citing Scripture. It has everything to do with your tendency to go out of your way to criticize Bush when he did it and to give Obama a pass when he does it.

char: “You're clearly the hypocrite here, and if you aren't upset, you're giving a great impression of it.”

If that’s so, you should be able to specifically explain my hypocrisy (instead of just asserting it). The only thing that could even remotely be defined as ‘upsetting’ is your repeated (although wholly predictable) justifications and rationalizations for why you treat Obama’s public invocations of his heavenly father as harmless while regarding Bush’s private invocations as portending Armageddon.

char: “For the record, I do think Carter and Bush II were genuinely Christians. Reagan was sort of religious in his Hollywood way. The rest of our recent Presidents (Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Bush I, Clinton, Obama) were, in my opinion, 100% faking it, including the current one.”

No kidding? I said as much earlier and offered it as an explanation for why you give a pass to Obama (because you’re convinced his faith is a sham anyway and his hat tips to faith are disingenuous) and not to Bush (who you agree has a genuine Christian faith).

char: “It makes no difference, unless one of them does stuff that the voices in his head tell him to do. Then it's even more worrisome than the dumb stuff they usually get up to.”

Really? Curious then that you don’t find it at all worrisome that Obama invokes the words and does stuff that voices in the head of someone else to justify his own decisions. And he fully intends to follow through on the admonition of (as you see it) the voice in Moses' head.

char: “Going to Heaven trumps everything for a believer--right?”

Does that line encapsulate the sum total of your undergrad religion degree?

later. iowan15