Since you made just one cogent point, I will respond to that, Iowan.

I did support the US occupation and "invasion" (the Northern Alliance did the work on the ground) of Afghanistan, even though I knew Americans would die in the conflict. This was because the 9/11 attacks were launched from Afghanistan, and they were not turning over the likely culprits. Clearly, they would have continued their attacks. This was self-defense, and just about every nation in the world supported us. The goal of the military intervention was commensurate with the sacrifice. It is true that Bush botched the followup and both Mullah Omar and Osama bin Laden escaped (and presumably still live); but the attempt had to be made.

In Vietnam and Iraq, there was simply no threat to the US commensurate with the sacrifice. The harm done to us by the military interventions exceeded by a huge amount any benefit.

That's it in a nutshell. I am not a pacifist. But if you advocate military action with its attendant casualties, it better be for a worthy purpose, and you damned well better be right about the result. Otherwise, you made an error, no matter how well intentioned you may have been. And to stubbornly compound that error at the cost of continued deaths is reprehensible, particularly after it has become clear that the invasion of Iraq increased terrorism and has not had the results predicted by Bush. Your pride is not worth one more death.

If that minimum wage thingy passes, it will be nice to know you finally got a raise.

Yeah, then we could afford shoes.

I'm glad I didn't tell you what my salary was when you asked. I would never hear the end of it. I don't give you a hard time about how you make your living, do I?